Lawrence F. King Memorial Forum: Is this a joke?

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Dwayne

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Topic: Is this a joke?
Posted: Oct 13 2008 at 4:58pm

Woodstock is correct. If one student has a right to wear makeup(girls), then all students have the right to wear makeup. You can not discriminate based on sex. That's what makes our country so special. Freedom of expression. Never blame the victim. He had every right to wear what he felt comfortable in. That is his right. Brandon McInerney is the offender. He is to blame. He chose to take someone's life. He has to pay for his deeds. I saw his website asking for people to make pledges for his defense. He doesn't want to be charged as an adult. If charged as a juvenile he could walk free at age 25. I respect the laws, and if that's what happens then we shall abide by it. If a jury of his peers chooses to let him free earlier then thats what must happen. My opinion however, is that Larry can't walk free at 25. He can't walk free at 16. He never made it past 15. And that was Brandon's choosing. If Brandon doesn't see the light of day until he's 60 then so be it. When he took that gun out of his bookbag and fired twice, he made a choice. I don't care if he was abused as a child. There are plenty of children that grow up and become model citizens who had troubled childhoods. Brandon deserves what he gave Larry. No second chances on life. My main point of my response is do not blame Larry for being who he is. This is brave and people like him should be applauded. Too many children hide who they are only to become insecure adults. I applaud you Larry. You are my hero.

Woodstock

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Posted: Apr 08 2008 at 6:35am

My first reaction when I saw the post starting this thread was "well,maybe Emmett Till shouldn't have whistled at a white woman in Mississippi in 1955(or spoke to her or whatever his killers claimed he did".

In both cases, a child was senselessly murdered for what he was. And then some have the temerity to say that it was the victim's own fault.

I am doubtless quite a bit older than most people who post on forums like this. I came of age in the South during the time of the civil rights movement,the Kennedy assassination, and the Vietnam War. I too was "different" from most of my peers as a youth. I actually liked school. When I was growing up my school system had an enormous dropout rate, and very few graduates who attended college. In fact, I was the first in my family to do so.

I will not go into great detail about my life except to say that I at times it was very,very hard as so many,including my own family, often did not understand me and my thoughts and dreams.

I had no interest in the guys locker room talk about girls, about "getting some",in lots of other things they talked about. I loved books and flowers.

I was off to college in the 60s, protesting the war, supporting civil rights,becoming a "flower child", smoking and tripping, listening to the great music of the day.

Then came the womens movement and the gay rights movement and I finally came out. I became a dedicated feminist. Have participated in many Take Back the Night marches in my community.

Enough about my personal life. What I would like to point out, something that cannot be emphasized enough is that homophobia and misogyny,or sexism, are different sides of the same coin. It was no coincidence that Larry was hated and killed because he expressed himself in a way that was called "feminine", hence bad.

There is no way to separate anti-gay bigotry from the anti-female culture of our patriarchal society. What the late Andrea Dworkin labelled "women-hating."

While the prevailing view is that racism is on the decline and at any rate not acceptable, the same is not true of sexism. Women from Hillary Clinton to Britney Spears have felt its effects, the oppression and disrespect that is so pervasive one may not even realize it is there. In the media,in popular culture, in our political and legal system.

What was said about Larry was that he "asked for it." How many times has that been said about women who were victims of rape, or other violence? That it was how she was dressed,that she shouldn't have been out at night,that she shouldn't have been drinking,etc.

NO, no one asks to be violated or raped or oppressed or bashed or murdered or harassed! The blame goes on the offender ,not the victim.

Peace! and Blessed Be!

belovedreborn View Drop Down

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Location: Kailua Kona, H
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Posted: Apr 01 2008 at 7:44pm

It is indeed sad and tragic. It is clearly no joke! In my personal opinion, the issue is not that everybody let him down or that others should have had the intelligence to stop him from this "crazy" and "dangerous" behavior. The issue is, "At what point in our lives do we get to declare who WE ARE and why society in general can say you can't be who you are. Larry clearly had a vision of himself that was counter to society, a vision counter to our, oh so sensitive, judeo-christian mores. I am transgendered. This means that I as a (one-time) male have the temerity to shave my legs, wear makeup, wear my hair more befitting of a woman, have both my ears pierced and, oh no, I wear earrings in them and Goddess forbid, I do all this in public. I am also nearing 60 years old. I did not transition until I was 48 years old; until that time I led a life acceptable to the church and society, and so filled with fear that someone would find out my secret and ruin my societally correct, perfectly christian life. My younger brother was gay. He came out while he was still in high school, at 17, in 1966. I never understood the power of my brother's choice, for my transition, until I could no longer stand not being me. Larry made his own choice, as did my brother, at an early age. Larry's choice got him killed. He should have been protected, not stopped. Larry's sacrifice and choice will pave the way, painfully so, for many of those of us who will come after.

<<Then, the school system should have never allowed this pure ignorance on the part of "Larry's" parents, foster parents, whatever, and Larry himself. Ridiculous. They said that if girls wear jewelry, you can't stop the boys. BULLsh*t. Want to argue? Want to tell me that he DOES have the right to do it? Well, tell Larry that. Oh, wait....you can't. I'm tired of this idiotic liberal attitude in the United States. Your ignorant radical left wing ideals are tearing this nation apart.>>

To you sir I will say, Larry had EVERY RIGHT to dress in any way he chose. You and those of your ilk who are so filled with fear and hate are simply wrong and eventually long after you are gone (unfortunately) we will remove the gene of hate from our species. As to the nation and this sick planet there is only one answer, and even the Christ made it very plain, "That you love one another!"

Here in Hawaii, the schools don 't have dress codes like on the mainland and we don't have gender issues like this primarily because we accept. You can start hormones at an early age. We have some of the most beautiful women on the planetl.

A'A I ka Hula, Waiho Ka Hilahila, I Ka Hale
("Live with passion, EMBRACE CHANGE, Do not fear it" )
BRIGHT BLESSINGS,
Amanda

V.O.R.

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Posted: Apr 01 2008 at 3:59pm

Joose6, I only wish it was a joke. But the fact is that one young man is dead never to have the chance to grow up and fully reach his potential, and another waits in jail for his trial because of a hateful act of violence and will also most likely never reach his full potential as he serves the rest of his life in prison. So NO Joose6 this is no joke!

Perhaps if the school system had followed it's own rules and regulations this tragedy could have been averted. Perhaps if Casa Pacifica, who was responsible for Larry at the time executed good judgement as a responsible guardian, this tragedy could have been avoided. Perhaps if other students that knew of this before hand, had the brains to say something to stop it, this tragedy could have been avoided.

That is a lot of perhaps, any of which could have made a big difference in the outcome of this mess. A lot of mistakes were made by people that should have known better and that is no joke.

When life is so cheap that it is easier to execute someone than to ignore a small problem or ask for help then we are all in trouble and that is NO JOKE. Yes there is a lot of ignorance here, we see it every day in political correctness gone awry. Common sense should never be replaced by political correctness and that is exactly what went wrong here, with the school, the county, the rainbow people and every other organization that had a hand it letting this problem advance to the level that caused Larry's death.

AND THAT IS NO JOKE!

Edited by V.O.R. - Apr 01 2008 at 4:00pm

joose6

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Posted: Mar 31 2008 at 7:30pm

Who in the hell lets their kid go to school in earrings, high heels, and makeup? Even with his "rough upbringing," why are his foster parents or home supervisors allowing his begavior? And then we are shocked that he got shot down at school?

Of course I don't agree with the kid who shot him....And I think it's a tragedy that a 14 year old boy had to die. Surely you knew that this was going to turn out bad for him, whether being beaten down daily or being shot to death.

Then, the school system should have never allowed this pure ignorance on the part of "Larry's" parents, foster parents, whatever, and Larry himself. Ridiculous. They said that if girls wear jewelry, you can't stop the boys. BULLsh*t. Want to argue? Want to tell me that he DOES have the right to do it? Well, tell Larry that. Oh, wait....you can't. I'm tired of this idiotic liberal attitude in the United States. Your ignorant radical left wing ideals are tearing this nation apart.

Sorry, I feel sorry for Larry, and the kid who was probably tortured by Larry's "innocent" advances who will now spend the rest of his life in prison. I don't feel sorry for all of you bleeding hearts who are crying out for "tolerance" in schools.

Good job, your idea that everyone has the freedom to behave however they want at any time just got a 14 year old killed. I hope you feel all warm and fuzzy at Larry's "courage." The courage that got him murdered.

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Dwayne Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: Oct 13 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Quote Reply Topic: Is this a joke? Posted: Oct 13 2008 at 4:58pm
	Woodstock is correct. If one student has a right to wear makeup(girls), then all students have the right to wear makeup. You can not discriminate based on sex. That's what makes our country so special. Freedom of expression. Never blame the victim. He had every right to wear what he felt comfortable in. That is his right. Brandon McInerney is the offender. He is to blame. He chose to take someone's life. He has to pay for his deeds. I saw his website asking for people to make pledges for his defense. He doesn't want to be charged as an adult. If charged as a juvenile he could walk free at age 25. I respect the laws, and if that's what happens then we shall abide by it. If a jury of his peers chooses to let him free earlier then thats what must happen. My opinion however, is that Larry can't walk free at 25. He can't walk free at 16. He never made it past 15. And that was Brandon's choosing. If Brandon doesn't see the light of day until he's 60 then so be it. When he took that gun out of his bookbag and fired twice, he made a choice. I don't care if he was abused as a child. There are plenty of children that grow up and become model citizens who had troubled childhoods. Brandon deserves what he gave Larry. No second chances on life. My main point of my response is do not blame Larry for being who he is. This is brave and people like him should be applauded. Too many children hide who they are only to become insecure adults. I applaud you Larry. You are my hero.

Woodstock Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: Apr 07 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Quote Reply Posted: Apr 08 2008 at 6:35am
	My first reaction when I saw the post starting this thread was "well,maybe Emmett Till shouldn't have whistled at a white woman in Mississippi in 1955(or spoke to her or whatever his killers claimed he did". In both cases, a child was senselessly murdered for what he was. And then some have the temerity to say that it was the victim's own fault. I am doubtless quite a bit older than most people who post on forums like this. I came of age in the South during the time of the civil rights movement,the Kennedy assassination, and the Vietnam War. I too was "different" from most of my peers as a youth. I actually liked school. When I was growing up my school system had an enormous dropout rate, and very few graduates who attended college. In fact, I was the first in my family to do so. I will not go into great detail about my life except to say that I at times it was very,very hard as so many,including my own family, often did not understand me and my thoughts and dreams. I had no interest in the guys locker room talk about girls, about "getting some",in lots of other things they talked about. I loved books and flowers. I was off to college in the 60s, protesting the war, supporting civil rights,becoming a "flower child", smoking and tripping, listening to the great music of the day. Then came the womens movement and the gay rights movement and I finally came out. I became a dedicated feminist. Have participated in many Take Back the Night marches in my community. Enough about my personal life. What I would like to point out, something that cannot be emphasized enough is that homophobia and misogyny,or sexism, are different sides of the same coin. It was no coincidence that Larry was hated and killed because he expressed himself in a way that was called "feminine", hence bad. There is no way to separate anti-gay bigotry from the anti-female culture of our patriarchal society. What the late Andrea Dworkin labelled "women-hating." While the prevailing view is that racism is on the decline and at any rate not acceptable, the same is not true of sexism. Women from Hillary Clinton to Britney Spears have felt its effects, the oppression and disrespect that is so pervasive one may not even realize it is there. In the media,in popular culture, in our political and legal system. What was said about Larry was that he "asked for it." How many times has that been said about women who were victims of rape, or other violence? That it was how she was dressed,that she shouldn't have been out at night,that she shouldn't have been drinking,etc. NO, no one asks to be violated or raped or oppressed or bashed or murdered or harassed! The blame goes on the offender ,not the victim. Peace! and Blessed Be!

belovedreborn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: Mar 28 2008 Location: Kailua Kona, H Online Status: Offline Posts: 4	Quote Reply Posted: Apr 01 2008 at 7:44pm
	It is indeed sad and tragic. It is clearly no joke! In my personal opinion, the issue is not that everybody let him down or that others should have had the intelligence to stop him from this "crazy" and "dangerous" behavior. The issue is, "At what point in our lives do we get to declare who WE ARE and why society in general can say you can't be who you are. Larry clearly had a vision of himself that was counter to society, a vision counter to our, oh so sensitive, judeo-christian mores. I am transgendered. This means that I as a (one-time) male have the temerity to shave my legs, wear makeup, wear my hair more befitting of a woman, have both my ears pierced and, oh no, I wear earrings in them and Goddess forbid, I do all this in public. I am also nearing 60 years old. I did not transition until I was 48 years old; until that time I led a life acceptable to the church and society, and so filled with fear that someone would find out my secret and ruin my societally correct, perfectly christian life. My younger brother was gay. He came out while he was still in high school, at 17, in 1966. I never understood the power of my brother's choice, for my transition, until I could no longer stand not being me. Larry made his own choice, as did my brother, at an early age. Larry's choice got him killed. He should have been protected, not stopped. Larry's sacrifice and choice will pave the way, painfully so, for many of those of us who will come after. <<Then, the school system should have never allowed this pure ignorance on the part of "Larry's" parents, foster parents, whatever, and Larry himself. Ridiculous. They said that if girls wear jewelry, you can't stop the boys. BULLsh*t. Want to argue? Want to tell me that he DOES have the right to do it? Well, tell Larry that. Oh, wait....you can't. I'm tired of this idiotic liberal attitude in the United States. Your ignorant radical left wing ideals are tearing this nation apart.>> To you sir I will say, Larry had EVERY RIGHT to dress in any way he chose. You and those of your ilk who are so filled with fear and hate are simply wrong and eventually long after you are gone (unfortunately) we will remove the gene of hate from our species. As to the nation and this sick planet there is only one answer, and even the Christ made it very plain, "That you love one another!" Here in Hawaii, the schools don 't have dress codes like on the mainland and we don't have gender issues like this primarily because we accept. You can start hormones at an early age. We have some of the most beautiful women on the planetl.
	A'A I ka Hula, Waiho Ka Hilahila, I Ka Hale ("Live with passion, EMBRACE CHANGE, Do not fear it" ) BRIGHT BLESSINGS, Amanda

V.O.R. Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: Apr 01 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Quote Reply Posted: Apr 01 2008 at 3:59pm
	Joose6, I only wish it was a joke. But the fact is that one young man is dead never to have the chance to grow up and fully reach his potential, and another waits in jail for his trial because of a hateful act of violence and will also most likely never reach his full potential as he serves the rest of his life in prison. So NO Joose6 this is no joke! Perhaps if the school system had followed it's own rules and regulations this tragedy could have been averted. Perhaps if Casa Pacifica, who was responsible for Larry at the time executed good judgement as a responsible guardian, this tragedy could have been avoided. Perhaps if other students that knew of this before hand, had the brains to say something to stop it, this tragedy could have been avoided. That is a lot of perhaps, any of which could have made a big difference in the outcome of this mess. A lot of mistakes were made by people that should have known better and that is no joke. When life is so cheap that it is easier to execute someone than to ignore a small problem or ask for help then we are all in trouble and that is NO JOKE. Yes there is a lot of ignorance here, we see it every day in political correctness gone awry. Common sense should never be replaced by political correctness and that is exactly what went wrong here, with the school, the county, the rainbow people and every other organization that had a hand it letting this problem advance to the level that caused Larry's death. AND THAT IS NO JOKE! Edited by V.O.R. - Apr 01 2008 at 4:00pm

joose6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: Mar 31 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Quote Reply Posted: Mar 31 2008 at 7:30pm
	Who in the hell lets their kid go to school in earrings, high heels, and makeup? Even with his "rough upbringing," why are his foster parents or home supervisors allowing his begavior? And then we are shocked that he got shot down at school? Of course I don't agree with the kid who shot him....And I think it's a tragedy that a 14 year old boy had to die. Surely you knew that this was going to turn out bad for him, whether being beaten down daily or being shot to death. Then, the school system should have never allowed this pure ignorance on the part of "Larry's" parents, foster parents, whatever, and Larry himself. Ridiculous. They said that if girls wear jewelry, you can't stop the boys. BULLsh*t. Want to argue? Want to tell me that he DOES have the right to do it? Well, tell Larry that. Oh, wait....you can't. I'm tired of this idiotic liberal attitude in the United States. Your ignorant radical left wing ideals are tearing this nation apart. Sorry, I feel sorry for Larry, and the kid who was probably tortured by Larry's "innocent" advances who will now spend the rest of his life in prison. I don't feel sorry for all of you bleeding hearts who are crying out for "tolerance" in schools. Good job, your idea that everyone has the freedom to behave however they want at any time just got a 14 year old killed. I hope you feel all warm and fuzzy at Larry's "courage." The courage that got him murdered.